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Angrybirdstar's avatar

not exactly the same but probably relevant to Djokovic "blocking" returns: TA MCP career return leaderboard says he slices 19.5% of returns - 25.7% on first serves, 9.5% on second serves. Wawrinka is 20; 28.6; 10.4. Federer is 16.8, 24.6, 7.0.

fwiw, last 52 stats suggest that Djokovic is returning more aggressively than he has for most of his career. only 2.1% slices on 2nd returns!

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Frauderer's avatar

Hi Hugh, as always a great analysis covering a pretty new topic to this sub

Few observations/questions :

1) It has been hinted already but I guess Djokovic being less effective against Wawrinka compared to Rafa and Roger may come down to his more western grip? His difficulties to generate pure pace off slow balls have been documented but I guess this could be the reason

2) Apart from that grip chink (which has it’s upsides), I think Fils FH hits great technical boxes actually very close so Ruud : the grip, flexed-wrist (I think), but very upright racket head that allows for a gravity assisted smoothpath. Not the shot that I would blame if he didn’t win a grand slam. Do you agree.

3) As a knowledgeable reddit user (Zero_Dimension98) pointed out when I asked him what he thought of Fils, his racket opens up early on the serve, which coupled with his high toss can cause problems especially on second serve. Could be bettered.

4) Also, while his BH again ticks a lot of technical boxes, Zero questioned his hip/arm coordination and I can’t help but fear he may be right because his BH doesn’t have elite consistency yet. What do you think?

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Hugh Clarke's avatar

1) I think the grip played a part in his inability to do as much damage on the plus 1 ball after the serve, but also his game style isn't—or wasn't back then—about dominating on the plus-1 ball quite like Rafa and Rog.

2) Yeah pretty similar to ruud off the ground.

3) Yep he goes palm up quite early in his service motion. That's what I think he needs to work on.

4) Haven't watched enough to comment on his backhand technique in depth yet. I like his setup position.

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H Yang's avatar

Does flexed-wrist check a technical box? I thought neutral wrist is considered the better setup.

Hugh I'm sure you've covered this point before - can you remind us pls?

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Hugh Clarke's avatar

I hate to use the word "better" or assume there is one technical ideal. I think flexion is necessary/seen more in extreme fh grips like Fritz/Ruud/Fils/Khachanov because contact is made with more flexion. My hunch is when flexion is there in grips that aren't that extreme (Hurkacz and Zverev, for example) that it hurts timing.

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Elliu Huang's avatar

Just when I thought I learned everything about technique, Hugh drops this analysis of the disadvantage of the Western grip on full display. Amazing piece Hugh!

I always noticed watching highlights that Djokovic particularly struggled with no pace (US Open 2016 vs Monfils). I guess the Western grip could explain that.

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Hugh Clarke's avatar

Probably a factor in it.

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H Yang's avatar

Djokovic has a Western grip? I'm fairly sure he uses SW and always has.

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Hugh Clarke's avatar

Djokovic uses a modified, 3/4, or "extreme" SW. When he was younger he was closer to a full western but has gradually made a small change toward semi-western over the years.

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Jonathan Fausett's avatar

All this being said, and I agree with your analysis. I think Fils will one day win at least one Major. Bublik, I don't see it.

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Klaas's avatar

I personally don't see him winning a major, he has too many flaws in his technique. He reminds me of FAA who is also good on indoor hard courts but hasn't made the technical changes needed to win big titles.

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Hugh Clarke's avatar

Yeah Bublik no chance. Fils has a lot of promise. i think the serve needs a little more juice but on courts with a little more bounce he is going to be a threat for sure.

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