I watched the Ruud loss to Jordan Thompson and it got me thinking about how critical having a great forehand is. Great being both sword and shield in one. Ruuds game, especially off clay, is fairly incomplete and yet he's made 3 grand slam finals with his fh canon. Tsitsipas is maybe also in this camp although his forecourt game is better than Ruuds. (Berrettini also?)
The big 3 (and Sampras) obviously all had mega forehands, Murrays was slightly lacking so despite matching or bettering the other 3 in many areas he couldn't best them consistently. Sincaraz great forehands so moved ahead.
So despite having GS worthy skills in the rest of his game, Zvervev hasn't been able to overcome his forehand being fallible in the big moments.
If you switched his forehand and backhand strength he could have 5 slams by now
Loads of nuance missed in this take, easy draws, matchups etc but it's my current qualitative analysis... Perhaps Death of a Forehand pt 4 could add some facts...
I agree I'd rather have an ATG forehand than an ATG great backhand. Even the best backhands produce mediocre spin/speeds/damage compared to tour average forehands.
A greta forehand can take over a match, but I don't think the same can be said for a backhand.
That being said, these guys like Berrenttini, Ruud, Tsitsipas, thatvhave great forehands and significantly weaker backhands, looks a bit dated out there, all the running around to hit forehands, and it doing so, giving up way too much court position.
back to you soon -- I'll double check with my supervisor (we are writing a manuscript now for publication). If I don't reply in a week or so just reply here again
Hi Gokalp, I haven't forgotten this request. We are working on the manuscript now for publication, so I am holding off sharing it. I will let you know when the initial draft publication is circulating and email you a copy of course (jan/Feb)
This may be a bit of a bank shot point to make, but I think Zverev's ability to improve his serve was among the easier fixes across those examples included in the piece. I'm not saying improving the serve is obvious because it's arguably the most important shot in tennis. What comes to mind is that Zverev experienced a crisis, a real burning bridge moment when he had the double fault problem in 2020. That kind of experience was undeniably embarrassing and a real catalyst for change. Same can be said for Sabalenka. Both of them had near meme-like events related to their serve and I think that helps to counter the ego/confidence that can prevent talented people from admitting and addressing their weaknesses.
As always a great analysis with an eye on a deeper point. How do you get better?
Djokovic talked about it in his 60 mins interview here in the US. He is dealing with adversity and feeling all the negative things one feels under pressure. He has just figured out how to deal with them.
Improving a weakness is important. Not to focus on it but to make it as good as it can be. Believing that it can be better and that there is a way to get there. I have been rewatching A LOT of Fed when he came back from his first knee surgery. Boy, was the backhand much better. It was like it was shot out of a cannon every time he hit it.
If it took Fed most of his career to create the kind of backhand he always wanted to have, imagine everyone else.
Zverev looks so good. His serve is so much better. His forehand is getting there. Maybe, maybe just maybe he can win a coveted major. I was hoping he would win RG this year.
i think some players are naturally more open to changes than others, and that may be a key factor to continually improving. Nadal's forehand is a good example. Even after an incredible 2008, in 2009 it was different, then different again in 2010.
I too think that is the best match I have ever seen Zverev play. His backhand is one of the 3 best on ATP, along with Novak and Sinner. He probably has the most high end firepower off that side than anyone. If his forehand is on, there is just nowhere to go. Clearly, ATP "Serve Quality Insights" stats show he is one of the 5 best servers on Tour. His forehand technique is good, he hits a very good straight arm forehand, but we all know he can lose his way with it. He seems to have corrected his 2nd serve woes, which were once an issue. He may get there with his forehand.
on clay I think it is THE best backhand given his height and his high takeback. Madrid, Nadal on clay, were always weathered pretty well by AZ. The forehand has become better with a lot of match wins. Let's see how he goes starting from zero in 2025 after a month away from matches and semifinals to defend.
Yes, I would say Zverev backhand held up well vs Nadal on clay. Certainly the Nadal hook forehand to the righties backhand the ultimate test. Novak really the only player to consistently Nadal on clay off the backhand, going down the line.
I watched the Ruud loss to Jordan Thompson and it got me thinking about how critical having a great forehand is. Great being both sword and shield in one. Ruuds game, especially off clay, is fairly incomplete and yet he's made 3 grand slam finals with his fh canon. Tsitsipas is maybe also in this camp although his forecourt game is better than Ruuds. (Berrettini also?)
The big 3 (and Sampras) obviously all had mega forehands, Murrays was slightly lacking so despite matching or bettering the other 3 in many areas he couldn't best them consistently. Sincaraz great forehands so moved ahead.
So despite having GS worthy skills in the rest of his game, Zvervev hasn't been able to overcome his forehand being fallible in the big moments.
If you switched his forehand and backhand strength he could have 5 slams by now
Loads of nuance missed in this take, easy draws, matchups etc but it's my current qualitative analysis... Perhaps Death of a Forehand pt 4 could add some facts...
I agree I'd rather have an ATG forehand than an ATG great backhand. Even the best backhands produce mediocre spin/speeds/damage compared to tour average forehands.
A greta forehand can take over a match, but I don't think the same can be said for a backhand.
That being said, these guys like Berrenttini, Ruud, Tsitsipas, thatvhave great forehands and significantly weaker backhands, looks a bit dated out there, all the running around to hit forehands, and it doing so, giving up way too much court position.
heard Jim Courier today during ATP finals give your blog a enthusiastic endorsement! that is a game changer for your career. You deserve it, congrats!
That is wild, and I did manage to catch a replay of it!
Hi Hugh, your thesis sounds very interesting! Any chance we can read it?
back to you soon -- I'll double check with my supervisor (we are writing a manuscript now for publication). If I don't reply in a week or so just reply here again
🙋🏻♂️
Seeing him on Monday! I'll ask
Hi Gokalp, I haven't forgotten this request. We are working on the manuscript now for publication, so I am holding off sharing it. I will let you know when the initial draft publication is circulating and email you a copy of course (jan/Feb)
This may be a bit of a bank shot point to make, but I think Zverev's ability to improve his serve was among the easier fixes across those examples included in the piece. I'm not saying improving the serve is obvious because it's arguably the most important shot in tennis. What comes to mind is that Zverev experienced a crisis, a real burning bridge moment when he had the double fault problem in 2020. That kind of experience was undeniably embarrassing and a real catalyst for change. Same can be said for Sabalenka. Both of them had near meme-like events related to their serve and I think that helps to counter the ego/confidence that can prevent talented people from admitting and addressing their weaknesses.
good point - sometimes "good enough" stops people from chasing something better. Rock bottom can be a blessing
As always a great analysis with an eye on a deeper point. How do you get better?
Djokovic talked about it in his 60 mins interview here in the US. He is dealing with adversity and feeling all the negative things one feels under pressure. He has just figured out how to deal with them.
Improving a weakness is important. Not to focus on it but to make it as good as it can be. Believing that it can be better and that there is a way to get there. I have been rewatching A LOT of Fed when he came back from his first knee surgery. Boy, was the backhand much better. It was like it was shot out of a cannon every time he hit it.
If it took Fed most of his career to create the kind of backhand he always wanted to have, imagine everyone else.
Zverev looks so good. His serve is so much better. His forehand is getting there. Maybe, maybe just maybe he can win a coveted major. I was hoping he would win RG this year.
Who knows, maybe next year?
i think some players are naturally more open to changes than others, and that may be a key factor to continually improving. Nadal's forehand is a good example. Even after an incredible 2008, in 2009 it was different, then different again in 2010.
I too think that is the best match I have ever seen Zverev play. His backhand is one of the 3 best on ATP, along with Novak and Sinner. He probably has the most high end firepower off that side than anyone. If his forehand is on, there is just nowhere to go. Clearly, ATP "Serve Quality Insights" stats show he is one of the 5 best servers on Tour. His forehand technique is good, he hits a very good straight arm forehand, but we all know he can lose his way with it. He seems to have corrected his 2nd serve woes, which were once an issue. He may get there with his forehand.
on clay I think it is THE best backhand given his height and his high takeback. Madrid, Nadal on clay, were always weathered pretty well by AZ. The forehand has become better with a lot of match wins. Let's see how he goes starting from zero in 2025 after a month away from matches and semifinals to defend.
Yes, I would say Zverev backhand held up well vs Nadal on clay. Certainly the Nadal hook forehand to the righties backhand the ultimate test. Novak really the only player to consistently Nadal on clay off the backhand, going down the line.
is berrettini's fh near? probably only in the second part of the whole movement (?)
Gets it with a lower and elbow and more leverage but at times he seems to approach that mold.
https://youtu.be/io6Escg6lSM?si=wkesRFIesFVWG2-e