Dying to read death of a forehand’s latest installment. FAA backhand seems to lack a bit of coil in that he doesn’t wrap around at all. Almost like it is too modern. Great stuff on Stef!
Wow!! Great to connect with you here. Did you post about this thread on tennisplayer.net?
So sad about John Yandell. I’ve been MIA from the tennis world. Less variety is making me less excited about the new generation. All righties, all two handers. But I have to adapt, right?
Great write-up, as always. A question regarding the inclusion of Alcaraz in the "outside hands but works thanks to little drop" category. Back in Hambourg 2023 which is the first analysis I remember where you gave criticism to Carlos's BH, you pointed out the outside-hands setup as well as the lack of a great racket drop, but in this one you saw that as sort of a weakness while not comparing him straight to the Norrie/Kyrgios flat BHs of this world.
Then, over the months/years, I actually saw you praising Carlos's racket drop and use of gravity (especially in comparison with Rublev's) thanks to his bent elbow/higher position. The loss of this elbow extension early in the setup while not having a big in to out flip is what prompted you to predict a Alcaraz BH regression in 2025 which so far to me looks to be holding up (small sample). Because, and that's my question, I don't know if we can group Alcaraz's newer BH with the likes of ADM/Norrie/Mannarino yet. As you said, it's not as aenemic/flat, I feel like he is still trying to get some racket drop, but it's not as efficient as it previously was.
That's why we could talk about a regression rather than a simple technical change that leads to trade-offs.
The one thing I still love about Alcaraz's BH is something you talked about last week again in comparison to Rublev's, is the locked-wrist follow-through, which aids in control as well as redirection/absorption from deep in the court
Correction : Hambourg 2022. Full quote is : "His main issue is that he keeps the racquet head outside the hands (like Berrettini, Rublev, and Roddick) but he also lacks a good drop in the backswing. This creates a noisier and flatter swing, and I will keep pointing it out because I think it is a major reason for his inconsistency on that side."
Looking back to it recently got me a bit confused because I think that not having much drop was a good way of counter-acting the negative effects of the outside hands setup (but Alcaraz does drop, or at least he did before 2025)
So there is a drop from above the ball to ball level (what alcaraz does/what a young Kyrgios did), and then there is drop from above the ball to an extent beneath the ball (let's say Djokovic/Zverev/Nishikori/Safin as examples, plus a young Nadal). If you are setup outside, it is less of a problem if you don't drop beneath the ball (because being beneath the ball requires a more in-to-out path; being at ball level you can have a more linear back-to-front path.), but using gravity is still helpful to generating racquet speed, so even if you set up outside, it is beneficial I think. Again, tactics and playstyle come into it, and it may be that Alcaraz is better off sacrificing racquet speed and gaining time/court position by being even lower/straighter with the arms/more compact, but I don't buy it so far.
This is a good video to show the Alcaraz / Djokovic distinction:
There's level's of excellence in my opinion, or several factors that I think can contribute to better backhands.
1) gravity drop
2) setting up inside
3) getting beneath the ball (thus requiring being inside the line, and allowing the strings to close for topspin)
If you have all three I think you see that in most ATG backhands (Djoker/Nishikori/Safin/Zverev//Nalbandian/Sinner* and Rune* etc etc. Plus Fonseca I am willing to bet will be considered as having an ATG backhand when all is said and done.
You can have 1,2, and 3, but you can't have just 1 and 3 and be as effective.
If you don't have number 2, you don't want number 3 in my opinion.
*Langauge issue - there is setting up outside and there is having a swing that is always outside. Alcaraz is an example of setting up outside and hitting outside. Sinner and Rune are examples of setting up outside, but actually sling-shotting their backswings way back from the inside.
Thank you. So now you could say Alcaraz’s newer BH has none of the 3 elements of greatness, but he still has the locked wristed element and a lack of drop beneath the ball is not as detrimental when you setup outside. It’s when you try to do so like Felix it’s a big problem.
Still, given he doesn’t use gravity anymore, I’d like him to have than in to out motion you mentioned in Sinner, Rune, and I guess Machac, who has a very close initial setup. Because he isn’t exactly in the flat category completely.
Yeah, and these are all models and models are all wrong, but sometimes useful for explaining things. I think Agassi is another who didn't have any (maybe a bit of drop) but had an ATG backhand, and maybe that is tactically related also: super aggressive court position/stealing time/redirecting
Yeah we are talking very minor changes, but the higher you go in level, the more effect small changes have. I would argue that small differences are the only difference when you’re in the top of the game
I don't have his exact specs, but I would guess that his new frame is lighter, stiffer, and has a more open pattern (that last part we do know), so he's getting more speed on off-centre shots, a higher launch angle with a more open pattern, and an easier time swinging it if it's lighter (which is speculative)
I've seen this answer but it sounds like you'd be crazy to not switch, almost the same as Federer's racquet head size; is familiarity the sole reason why they delay the switch for so long?
It certainly seems like Stef was going through a positive confidence loop / racquet honeymoon this week. A few shots go a bit better - a return lands deeper, another backhand lands inside the lines and you snowball from there. Just looking at his footwork, some shots it feels like he's in the air floating, leaping, turning, going in again.
One particularly important consideration in OHBH players is that the setup trade-offs between forehand and backhand are often sharper than for two-handers, who have extra degrees of freedom to adjust the backhand. Tsitsipas was certainly proficient with the Wilson on the forehand, but his backhand gesture does not generate as much power; it seems to me that he has relatively more "push" and relatively less "pull" / "coil" than other one-handed backhands. In that sense, a stiffer frame and a flatter power drop-off on mishits are probably a better match to his stroke style on that wing, particularly on blocked returns; any issues on the forehand (if any!) can be more easily handled.
Speaking of sweetspots beyond the stiffness factor, it was often said that the "Yonex shape" expands them a bit compared to standard oval shapes along those lines; Yonex seems to be gaining share in both pro tours* and other manufacturers are putting out some "yonex-er" head designs*, there might indeed be something about high-speed tennis and defensive shots incentivizing increased shot tolerance over other racket setup properties.
* source for both: personal vibes. Any mistake on my end will be attributed to the flashy aesthetics of the VCORE red.
I think Yonex is the only company not made in China, and so they are renowned for high quality and are just overall beautiful frames; the ezones are blend of soft but somehow powerful.
I agree with the ezone description, but I do think they make their throats more flexible than their heads. It lowers the RA but still provides a firm striking area. I have found them to sneak up on you and hurt the arm after some time. That's past versions, not the new one.
Across the week both players hit more errors than winners in 9 out of 10 matches. Not sure what to make of it, but I noticed similar type of play from FAA in Adelaide earlier this year against Cazaux and Paul.
Watching him this week it was immediately noticeable how much faster the swing was. Yeah, the racquet is stiffer and there was more energy and depth on the ball, but the swing was faster. This is really apparent on the backhand. As technically flawed as it is, if he can just swing it faster it will have more bite. But I also sensed it on the forehand.
As a rec player, I made this switch recently myself, from the classic non-variable box frame of the Blade to the aerodynamic throat and variable width of the PA98. It's a different experience. The arm just moves through the air a little more easily. This also impacts defensive shots, when you're behind in the point, it takes less energy and a shorter swing path to get the ball deep.
Love your thoughts on Tsitsipas here, his racquet change and forehand technique. I have always loved his forehand, certainly one of the very best in the world. He takes the ball on so early and can hit any shot with it, a lot like Fed as you point out. His fist grip and that palm up before his move to contact is very interesting. His spin rates on his forehand are at the very top of the game. Interesting that his spin rates on the backhand dropped slightly from his old Wilson stick. I wonder if that is the racquet strings, or just hitting through the ball slightly more. Who knows.
Dubai would be part of the equation for spin i reckon. The 52-week stats include a heavy chunk of clay, where he has more time and space to load up for heavier backhands
“Serve plus one” refers to the first ball the server hits after their serve is returned. So it’s the third ball in the rally. Usually it’s a winner or hit so well it causes their opponent to hit a forced errors. It’s often also commonly a serve + forehand, but doesn’t have to be, as that’s typically players preferred and better shot. Unless you are weirdo Zverev who hunts for serve plus one with his backhand.
Think about it like a “serve and volley”. Instead of a volley, the “plus one” has more options but essentially finishes the point from an aggressive second shot dished up to them by their serve.
TL;DR - big or smart serve followed by the server’s next shot finishing the point.
Dying to read death of a forehand’s latest installment. FAA backhand seems to lack a bit of coil in that he doesn’t wrap around at all. Almost like it is too modern. Great stuff on Stef!
Arturo, great to hear from you on this thread. This is Stroke from tennisplayer.net forum.
Wow!! Great to connect with you here. Did you post about this thread on tennisplayer.net?
So sad about John Yandell. I’ve been MIA from the tennis world. Less variety is making me less excited about the new generation. All righties, all two handers. But I have to adapt, right?
So sad. John was a pioneer.
I still have his book Visual Tennis on my shelf!
Hi Hugh,
Great write-up, as always. A question regarding the inclusion of Alcaraz in the "outside hands but works thanks to little drop" category. Back in Hambourg 2023 which is the first analysis I remember where you gave criticism to Carlos's BH, you pointed out the outside-hands setup as well as the lack of a great racket drop, but in this one you saw that as sort of a weakness while not comparing him straight to the Norrie/Kyrgios flat BHs of this world.
Then, over the months/years, I actually saw you praising Carlos's racket drop and use of gravity (especially in comparison with Rublev's) thanks to his bent elbow/higher position. The loss of this elbow extension early in the setup while not having a big in to out flip is what prompted you to predict a Alcaraz BH regression in 2025 which so far to me looks to be holding up (small sample). Because, and that's my question, I don't know if we can group Alcaraz's newer BH with the likes of ADM/Norrie/Mannarino yet. As you said, it's not as aenemic/flat, I feel like he is still trying to get some racket drop, but it's not as efficient as it previously was.
That's why we could talk about a regression rather than a simple technical change that leads to trade-offs.
The one thing I still love about Alcaraz's BH is something you talked about last week again in comparison to Rublev's, is the locked-wrist follow-through, which aids in control as well as redirection/absorption from deep in the court
Correction : Hambourg 2022. Full quote is : "His main issue is that he keeps the racquet head outside the hands (like Berrettini, Rublev, and Roddick) but he also lacks a good drop in the backswing. This creates a noisier and flatter swing, and I will keep pointing it out because I think it is a major reason for his inconsistency on that side."
Looking back to it recently got me a bit confused because I think that not having much drop was a good way of counter-acting the negative effects of the outside hands setup (but Alcaraz does drop, or at least he did before 2025)
So there is a drop from above the ball to ball level (what alcaraz does/what a young Kyrgios did), and then there is drop from above the ball to an extent beneath the ball (let's say Djokovic/Zverev/Nishikori/Safin as examples, plus a young Nadal). If you are setup outside, it is less of a problem if you don't drop beneath the ball (because being beneath the ball requires a more in-to-out path; being at ball level you can have a more linear back-to-front path.), but using gravity is still helpful to generating racquet speed, so even if you set up outside, it is beneficial I think. Again, tactics and playstyle come into it, and it may be that Alcaraz is better off sacrificing racquet speed and gaining time/court position by being even lower/straighter with the arms/more compact, but I don't buy it so far.
This is a good video to show the Alcaraz / Djokovic distinction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ6YGZ5_c-k&t=165s
There's level's of excellence in my opinion, or several factors that I think can contribute to better backhands.
1) gravity drop
2) setting up inside
3) getting beneath the ball (thus requiring being inside the line, and allowing the strings to close for topspin)
If you have all three I think you see that in most ATG backhands (Djoker/Nishikori/Safin/Zverev//Nalbandian/Sinner* and Rune* etc etc. Plus Fonseca I am willing to bet will be considered as having an ATG backhand when all is said and done.
You can have 1,2, and 3, but you can't have just 1 and 3 and be as effective.
If you don't have number 2, you don't want number 3 in my opinion.
*Langauge issue - there is setting up outside and there is having a swing that is always outside. Alcaraz is an example of setting up outside and hitting outside. Sinner and Rune are examples of setting up outside, but actually sling-shotting their backswings way back from the inside.
Thank you. So now you could say Alcaraz’s newer BH has none of the 3 elements of greatness, but he still has the locked wristed element and a lack of drop beneath the ball is not as detrimental when you setup outside. It’s when you try to do so like Felix it’s a big problem.
Still, given he doesn’t use gravity anymore, I’d like him to have than in to out motion you mentioned in Sinner, Rune, and I guess Machac, who has a very close initial setup. Because he isn’t exactly in the flat category completely.
Yeah, and these are all models and models are all wrong, but sometimes useful for explaining things. I think Agassi is another who didn't have any (maybe a bit of drop) but had an ATG backhand, and maybe that is tactically related also: super aggressive court position/stealing time/redirecting
what tradeoff does his new Babolat present compared to the old Blade (or, say, Wilson in general/specifically ProStaff)?
Yeah we are talking very minor changes, but the higher you go in level, the more effect small changes have. I would argue that small differences are the only difference when you’re in the top of the game
I don't have his exact specs, but I would guess that his new frame is lighter, stiffer, and has a more open pattern (that last part we do know), so he's getting more speed on off-centre shots, a higher launch angle with a more open pattern, and an easier time swinging it if it's lighter (which is speculative)
I've seen this answer but it sounds like you'd be crazy to not switch, almost the same as Federer's racquet head size; is familiarity the sole reason why they delay the switch for so long?
Often it is, but there are tradeoffs and it depends on playstyle. A heavier racquet provides more power AND control, but is harder to swing obviously.
Control is the trade-off, but the PA98 is still 16/20...it's not a launch pad.
It certainly seems like Stef was going through a positive confidence loop / racquet honeymoon this week. A few shots go a bit better - a return lands deeper, another backhand lands inside the lines and you snowball from there. Just looking at his footwork, some shots it feels like he's in the air floating, leaping, turning, going in again.
One particularly important consideration in OHBH players is that the setup trade-offs between forehand and backhand are often sharper than for two-handers, who have extra degrees of freedom to adjust the backhand. Tsitsipas was certainly proficient with the Wilson on the forehand, but his backhand gesture does not generate as much power; it seems to me that he has relatively more "push" and relatively less "pull" / "coil" than other one-handed backhands. In that sense, a stiffer frame and a flatter power drop-off on mishits are probably a better match to his stroke style on that wing, particularly on blocked returns; any issues on the forehand (if any!) can be more easily handled.
Speaking of sweetspots beyond the stiffness factor, it was often said that the "Yonex shape" expands them a bit compared to standard oval shapes along those lines; Yonex seems to be gaining share in both pro tours* and other manufacturers are putting out some "yonex-er" head designs*, there might indeed be something about high-speed tennis and defensive shots incentivizing increased shot tolerance over other racket setup properties.
* source for both: personal vibes. Any mistake on my end will be attributed to the flashy aesthetics of the VCORE red.
I think when I had them I was exclusively coaching with AO Dunlop balls, and paired with a mushy Yonex string I felt it was very forgiving
I think Yonex is the only company not made in China, and so they are renowned for high quality and are just overall beautiful frames; the ezones are blend of soft but somehow powerful.
I agree with the ezone description, but I do think they make their throats more flexible than their heads. It lowers the RA but still provides a firm striking area. I have found them to sneak up on you and hurt the arm after some time. That's past versions, not the new one.
Remember when Tennis TV tried to have that tiebreak point-by-point graphic a year or two ago? That was a disaster. It covered so much of the screen.
I wonder when Tennis TV will create a new scoreboard since they've had the current one for 3 years now.
Also, as a Blade v8 rec player, I wonder how the Aero would compare
Another thought on Tsitsipas and FAA:
Across the week both players hit more errors than winners in 9 out of 10 matches. Not sure what to make of it, but I noticed similar type of play from FAA in Adelaide earlier this year against Cazaux and Paul.
Both guys are super aggressive, so maybe they generate a lot more forced errors from opponents, which don't get counted
Watching him this week it was immediately noticeable how much faster the swing was. Yeah, the racquet is stiffer and there was more energy and depth on the ball, but the swing was faster. This is really apparent on the backhand. As technically flawed as it is, if he can just swing it faster it will have more bite. But I also sensed it on the forehand.
As a rec player, I made this switch recently myself, from the classic non-variable box frame of the Blade to the aerodynamic throat and variable width of the PA98. It's a different experience. The arm just moves through the air a little more easily. This also impacts defensive shots, when you're behind in the point, it takes less energy and a shorter swing path to get the ball deep.
Yeah very possible that he is using a lighter frame than his wilson
Love your thoughts on Tsitsipas here, his racquet change and forehand technique. I have always loved his forehand, certainly one of the very best in the world. He takes the ball on so early and can hit any shot with it, a lot like Fed as you point out. His fist grip and that palm up before his move to contact is very interesting. His spin rates on his forehand are at the very top of the game. Interesting that his spin rates on the backhand dropped slightly from his old Wilson stick. I wonder if that is the racquet strings, or just hitting through the ball slightly more. Who knows.
Dubai would be part of the equation for spin i reckon. The 52-week stats include a heavy chunk of clay, where he has more time and space to load up for heavier backhands
Am I the only reader that doesn't know what "serve-plus-one" means?
“Serve plus one” refers to the first ball the server hits after their serve is returned. So it’s the third ball in the rally. Usually it’s a winner or hit so well it causes their opponent to hit a forced errors. It’s often also commonly a serve + forehand, but doesn’t have to be, as that’s typically players preferred and better shot. Unless you are weirdo Zverev who hunts for serve plus one with his backhand.
Think about it like a “serve and volley”. Instead of a volley, the “plus one” has more options but essentially finishes the point from an aggressive second shot dished up to them by their serve.
TL;DR - big or smart serve followed by the server’s next shot finishing the point.
Thanks for your great reply. I did Google on it, so I had some idea, but you did better. :-)
I think there are a lot of nuances in the article I'm missing because I don't understand some of the technical jargon.